Showing posts with label TrainerRoad. Show all posts
Showing posts with label TrainerRoad. Show all posts

Monday, December 28, 2015

TrainerRoad IOS with Power Meter Control

While I typically use a PC laptop for indoor training with either the Kickr or E-Motion wireless control training, I thought today I would try the IOS TrainerRoad version just to see if all the sensors would pair up like the PC version. I've had all that is needed for the IOS setup, but just never used it. 

Everything paired up just as quickly and within a few seconds I was right into an easy custom workout. Easy because I just got off the road from a six hour drive and helping my wife dismantle the Christmas tree before jumping on the bike. The power meter control worked well as the Quarq led the charge and the Kickr attempted to adjust resistance to my ragged masher type cadence. At the end of the workout it all matched up pretty good to the data recorded directly from the Quarq to the Garmin 800 as shown at the very bottom screen shot in the WKO MRFA. 

Equipment Used Today:

Wahoo Kickr (Purchased late 2014)
iPhone 5s with Apple 30 pin to Lighting cord
ANT+ adaptor 30 pin adaptor
2015 Quarq ELSA
Garmin 800 (not necessary, but used to record the Quarq)
TrainerRoad IOS application (current edition at time of test)


TrainerRoad Settings and Sensors:

Quarq ELSA: Power Meter 
Quarq ELSA: Cadence
Kickr: Trainer
Kickr: Speed Sensor


Manual Zero before starting the workout



Screen Shots:

iPhone TrainerRoad custom workout
Quarq ELSA controlling the workout
Cadence from Quarq ELSA
TrainerRoad ERG Mode target


Post Training Comparison:


WKO+ Multi Range File Analysis
Yellow: Quarq recorded to Garmin 800
Red: TrainerRoad power meter controlled

Thursday, November 26, 2015

E-Motion Rollers Wireless Control Beta - First Glance

Update 1/8/2017

After talking to Inside Ride and understanding what happened in terms of the IR Beta unit not making it to the market I will hopefully be able to get one of the Elite controller units in the near future and give it a try. 

Update 7/10/2016:

I am sad to report that my latest attempts to use the wireless controller on the rollers has been difficult and on each attempt I have had to stop the workout because the resistance was too high while in ERG mode. I have also had difficulty in consistently getting the rollers setup quickly with either TrainerRoad or PerfPro. Once paired and the resistance control working along with the intervals I noticed wattage was quite different between the ANT+ controller wattage and a PowerTap G3. 

Also I have not seen any updates from Inside Ride either in firmware updates or news in many months. It makes me wonder if they have given up on the concept of the wireless controller or what is going on. On the purchase page there is very little description of the controller and for using with training applications and the only thing I see at this time is an option to pick wireless resistance on the roller purchase. No other description about using it for ERG mode. 



Like It?


Yes! 
Please Note: InsideRide Wireless Controller is still in Beta and is not quite posted as the public release model. However, it is available for purchase in an early adopter program as they continue to refine this product.

Now that I am getting an understanding on pre-workout setup protocol and the biggest surprise was that the TrainerRoad power meter control option seemed to work just as it does for the Kickr, I am really happy. More tests need to be done though, but at first glance I am very happy with today's trial use. I am also very grateful that the guys at InsideRide responded with patience while I was trying to get an understanding of some things. Some of it still not quite pairing or working out for me, such as, the O-Synce ANT+ remote is still not pairing for me, but that is not as important as using the rollers in ERG mode and trusting the data at the end of the workout and what I upload into WKO to track training.

Installation:

Installation was probably the easiest part for me compared to understanding how to pair up sensors and setting up in the training applications. InsideRide supplies the two tools necessary to install and it took me no more than 20 minutes or so to attach. 

More about installation here:
http://www.insideride.com/wireless-help


Two tools and bolts provided


The mechanical resistance selector to be removed

First, remove the rear bumper roller


Next remove the two screws holding the mechanical selector



See Inside Ride directions for attaching the controller. There are two screws that will line up with the previous screw holes. One is located inside the electronic housing and is accessed by removing the four screws on the cover plate. One of the screws is shown above.
Before replacing the rear bumper roller center the sticker on the flywheel

First Thoughts:

I have to admit that I first struggled to get this device up and running. The first part was not understanding the differences between this controller and something like the Kickr since it is direct drive and the bike is fully supported on a solid sturdy base. The E-Motion rollers obviously have the weight of the user, the bike weight and the tires that create rolling resistance that will play a role. Kind of like the Computrainer has a press on force for the tire where the user will torque down to a certain amount that will also play a role in how accurate the Computrainer's data will be in comparison to the user's power meter. It took a few emails for me to understand that the magnet was off the flywheel which is zero resistance, but there is still the rider and bike that causes some base level of resistance. In order for this controller to work for me I needed to get the resistance even lower in order for ERG to work in TrainerRoad where there are very low wattage targets for warm up and in between interval rest low wattage. Most of my custom and TR provided workouts have wattage warm up and rest targets at or below 100 watts.

In order for me to get ERG mode to work in TrainerRoad I switched down to my 30 ring and put it on the 28 cog, which is the lightest gear available on my bike. This allowed the roller resistance to be down low enough to register in the TrainerRoad target. I pretty much left it on that gear until the target increased a bit and then switched up a couple of cogs. I could have just left it in the easiest gear and the controller would have adjusted. 

Summary Important Note: Switch to your easiest gear in order to get to a base level of resistance that will align more with the warm up low watt TrainerRoad targets and pretty much you can leave it in that gear for the most part. I suppose if you are a more advanced cyclist with a race level fitness these results will vary as would the starting base gear.

Pairing:

Pairing in general was pretty easy, but at this point that too has varied for me. This may not be necessarily an InsideRide issue as it also happens to be my older laptop that requires the use of an ANT+ USB stick and also is using a Bluetooth 4.0 USB stick. All of these things will play a role in pairing. In my case I had to unplug the Wahoo Kickr so that the application would not pick it up. I found that I could not just unpair it. I had to unplug it. Also for the test today I could not get the specific E-Motion Roller selection in the public version of TrainerRoad to pick up the wireless controller. In previous short tests it picked it up in less than a second or two, but for some reason today it would not pick it up at all. For today's test I was able to pair it up quickly in TrainerRoad Beta as a Wahoo Kickr and that worked just fine. But this was interesting because in the TR Beta I could not disable the power meter control and the greatest thing happened as an end user that could happen. The power meter control worked with the E-Motion / TrainerRoad combination. 

Why am I so giddy about that?
Because as a user (not a blog reviewer) I want my data of my power meters because I trust my power meters more than I trust algorithms written into applications and trainers for virtual power. This is exactly what makes me a happier user for the Wahoo Kickr and having power meter control set the intensity of the workout in relating with the TrainerRoad workout and with the trainer to set resistance. For those of us use that use power meters outdoors and perhaps test our fitness levels with those power meter it is important that the data is close enough to trust as we track in training programs like WKO, Golden Cheetah, Training Peaks or other programs. Or even sending to coaches so that they can give good coaching advice.

In the IR E-Motion Test Tool the PowerTap G3 sensor is recognized as is the EMR (E-Motion Roller) wireless ANT+ controller. 2000 as noted in the screen shot is the magnet in a fully off position with no resistance other than the rolling resistance from the rider and bike. The E-Motion Test Tool is not necessary to use before using the training application like TrainerRoad. The next two images are just to show what the Test Tool looks like.





TrainerRoad picked up the E-Motion Rollers as Wahoo Kickr, but this worked just fine. Also the PowerTap G3 is selected and it was also used as the Speed.

TrainerRoad Workout Test:

 Pictures may tell a better story.



Pushed up from TrainerRoad to Strava



A glance at the basic metric comparisons in WKO - Match up pretty good



As recorded in TrainerRoad. (The spikes and drops are a result of me stopping and getting off the bike and restarting.)



As recorded from the Powertap G3 to the Garmin Edge 800 (The spikes, drops and stops are more notable, but did not make a difference in the overall training metrics between the two recordings.)


WKO Multi Range File Analysis comparison between the data matches, but then again it should because the external power meter was in control and the E-Motion Roller Wireless Controller did a pretty good job keeping pace with the power meter dialog to TrainerRoad and TrainerRoad directing the resistance on the controller. 

It appears to track a bit under the TR target, but that is okay with me. What is more important is how good is the data recorded. Well since it is controlled by the G3 and recorded based on the G3 I trust the data.
This is from the PowerTap recorded to the Garmin Edge. Notice that it compares exactly with the TrainerRoad  Summary. That's because the power meter control option in TrainerRoad seems to work with E-Motion Roller Wireless Control. Perfect!!

Bike Used:

LOOK 585


Wednesday, January 14, 2015

Kickr - Control By Power Meter

EDIT: I've removed previous tips on setting up control through the Wahoo applications and firmware updates since those do not seem to work for everyone. You can find more information and discussion on this topic at SLOWTWITCH

Update 3/26/2015

PerfPRO announced last week that they now have power meter control over the Kickr built into their latest public beta download. You can find the beta download at this link
https://perfprostudio.com/Download.aspx

It seems like the only viable option at this time is in PerfPro.
If you want power meter control right now for Kickr ERG my thought is Get PerfPro.

Update 4/1/2015

TrainerRoad has the option available now and can be downloaded to a PC or Mac. I will give it a try this evening. A couple have stated that it works well.

PC
https://www.dropbox.com/s/sg6yp9xnq8nwmgc/TrainerRoad.2.6.998.exe?dl=0

Mac
https://www.dropbox.com/s/fk4qsljghyr1oul/TrainerRoad.2.6.33.dmg?dl=0

The image below is a 20 minute interval segment comparing the Quarq data recorded on a Garmin Edge (yellow) and the data recorded in TrainerRoad (red) with the Quarq controlling the Kickr in ERG mode. All metrics totals for the workout session were the same at the end.


What is the solution for those who have either a hub based power meter or no power meter? I am not really sure and I have not heard or seen any discussion from Wahoo on how to improve the Kickr.

The Kickr is a pretty good trainer for wireless connection and for workout control from a program like TrainerRoad, PerfPro or others. It has a great feel and is of a good build quality structurally speaking. I am not an official reviewer that has thoroughly tested the data other than my own training data, which was about 15+ watts too high compared to two Quarqs and my Powertap G3 is within 4 watts of the Quarqs. I am confident when comparing my data that the Kickr's wattage was not correct and in my opinion not in an acceptable percentage range to those power meters. There have been a multitude of Kickr users that had the same experience with various brands of power meters being about 20 watts different. In a few rare cases some Kickrs have been below, but most have reported too high. There have been a few report that the Kickr was right on the money with the power meter from the start. So it seems to be a bit all over the place and I would feel it would be bad on my part to make good comments about a trainer and leave out something that a potential buyer regret later.

Thanks to PerfPro and TrainerRoad for stepping up to provide a means for those using power meters (non hub based meters) to control the Kickr and record the power meter data for historical training records.

Update 4/8/15

Wahoo announces on Slowtwitch a new beta firmware release.
Here is the post. http://forum.slowtwitch.com/cgi-bin/gforum.cgi?post=5500153#5500153
A public firmware will be released soon.

Update 2/5/16

Here are a few screen shots from an active recovery session last night using the combination of the Kickr (latest Wahoo firmware update v1.4.39), Quarq ELSA, PerfPro (latest edition using the power meter control option). I've had about a 15 watt difference between my power meters and the Kickr for the total training session since purchase and it is still about the same, but it does seem that the application and firmware updates have improved the overall feel of the Kickr. It seems be a little less erratic in power meter control than previously. 





The above image reflects the difference between the Kickr (purple) and the Quarq (blue) although it just happened that the point I did the screen shot shows a very close match. It is better to look at the overall power average in the Power Statistics.

Thursday, November 27, 2014

Inside Ride eMotion Rollers - Wireless

I've been using e-Motion Rollers since 2011 and would still give the rollers five star rating even though I started using the Wahoo Kickr this past August.

Now I am super excited about the news that Inside Ride is working on adding a new Bluetooth and ANT+ wireless controller to work with various training applications and in my case that would be with TrainerRoad. They currently sell a wireless remote to control the resistance, but this new device will be slightly different. My hope is that it will work like an erg mode just like the Kickr. TrainerRoad mentioned helping them with an ERG mode so it looks like that is the goal. I imagine they are working on virtual power for those who do not have a power meter, but I would use my PowerTap G3 equipped bike for the power meter.

Fortunately I have the "H" model so I should be able to install this upgrade when it is released. I just hope that it is not too expensive. If it is close to the current wireless remote price I will be glad to add this to the rollers. From that point I will be able use either the Kickr or the e-Motion rollers

 
 
Images from Inside Ride Web Site
 


Wednesday, August 27, 2014

Wahoo Kickr Gen 1

Update 1/9/17

I am heavily editing my initial blog post. Much of my initial thoughts have changed since the purchase back in August 2014 and because much of my long winded first post needed to be trimmed down.

Initially I was unhappy with the power difference of the Kickr compared to my power meters. If it were not for TrainerRoad and PerfPro stepping up early in 2015 and taking charge of implementing power meter control or power match I would not be a happy camper at all. Some have been lucky with the Gen 1 Kickr accuracy, but my particular Kickr the power meter portion has never been close enough for my liking. Having the Quarq ELSA in charge keeps me in my happy place and happy enough to jump on and train each day. Everything else about the Kickr is top notch as far as I am concerned. It pairs up quickly with every training application that I have tried and Wahoo continues to provide the occasional firmware updates that seemed to have improved my experience a little as have the updates from TrainerRoad and PerfPro. 

The Kickr feels good to me and I have no hesitation jumping on for a 60 to 90 minute session most weekdays year round. With the Quarq ELSA controlling the effort I trust that I am hitting the interval targets that I have planned without having to play various games to deal with the average 15 watt power difference of the Kickr.


Update 2/5/16

Here are a few screen shots from an active recovery session last night using the combination of the Kickr (latest Wahoo firmware update v1.4.39), Quarq ELSA, PerfPro (latest edition using the power meter control option). I've had about a 15 watt difference between my power meters and the Kickr for the total training session since purchase and it is still about the same, but it does seem that the application and firmware updates have improved the overall feel of the Kickr. It seems be a little less erratic in power meter control than previously. 





Update: 10/09/2015

I thought I would give an update based on using the Kickr now that I have a number of months and many hours of use. So far the equipment is very solid with no issues. Having the option for using the Quarq ELSA instead of the Kickr's power source to control an ERG workout through TrainerRoad or PerfPro has been really good. I couldn't expect it to be better and by using the ELSA I no longer take time to do a spin down or precious time warming up the Kickr to do a spin down since the ELSA does not seem to have these type of issues since it remains in the same room with near the same environmental conditions. Now my warm up is just about 5 to 10 minutes only to warm up my legs before to starting the intervals. The drive belt and all else about the Kickr seems to be just as solid as the first day.


The noise level varies depending on the gear used. I leave mine on the large chain ring and middle of the cog to keep the chain in a near straight line. It is not as loud as having it on a smaller cog spinning at a higher rate and it could be a little lower if I used the small ring. Erg is Erg. The cooling fans I use are still the loudest thing in the room so I typically wear ear buds or wireless headphone and my favorite Pandora Trance station to cover the sound of the fans. Without the fans I could easily hear the TV over the Kickr at a submaximal threshold intensity. At 90% of my FTP or greater than I need to turn up the TV to hear over the Kickr, but at that intensity I am suffering enough that I cannot focus in TV dialog anyway. Thus trance music via earbuds is just enough to drown out the internal screaming of the legs. 

Update: 1/14/2015

Started using the Quarq ELSA to control the Kickr as a beta.
http://thecyclingaddiction.blogspot.com/2015/01/kickr-control-by-power-meter-beta.html

Update 3/06/2015

PerfPRO announced last week that they now have power meter control over the Kickr built into their latest public beta download. You can find the beta download at this link
https://perfprostudio.com/Download.aspx

Update: 12/12/2014

Over the past couple of weeks I have traded a few emails with a Wahoo technician regarding the 14 watt difference in power output between the Kickr and my Quarq. The technician was very helpful giving me a few ideas of cleaning sensors and tightening the belt. He put me on the list for the calibration kit that Wahoo is sending out (with a deposit that will be canceled once the kit is mailed back). He also mentioned that they were working on an app that would allow the user to align the power of the Kickr to the user's power meter. For now I am very content to use the Kickr and adjust the intensity level incrementally within the TrainerRoad application. Still very happy with the purchase.

It will be interesting how I split up my indoor training between the Kickr and the e-Motion rollers once Inside Ride releases their ANT+/BLE resistance controller. This will give the rollers the ability to be used in ERG mode as well. I plan on keeping and using both.

See a review and test comparing SRM with the Kickr http://bikeboard.cc/wahoo-kickr-ber5640

Why is this important to get correct?
If you are sending your data to a coach they need to have accurate data. If there is a power discrepancy from a power meter that is being used to test outside and what is being used for indoor training the data will be skewed. It could be inflated or it could be under, but in either case the coach may give bad advice or set up the wrong plan. For instance my first few weeks of using the Kickr's power and filing that data in WKO+ my CTL ramp was trending upward rapidly. It made it look as if I was really progressing in training by setting new power curve best efforts when in fact I was actually under training because I was about 15 watts under my interval targets. Whether you have a coach or not it is important to have an idea of the accuracy and consistency of the power output. If there is temperature drift it can be equally as bad and the data cannot be trusted for watching positive or negative training trends. I am not too concerned that the Kickr's power be dead on the money in comparison to the Quarq, but it needs to be within a few watts. There are many Kickr users that are reporting that the Kickr's power is 15 to 20 watts higher than their power meters. There are a few reporting the Kickr's power is lower by that much. Just be aware of this potential difference and what it could mean to having a successful season ahead.


This comparison reflects about a 15 watt difference between the Quarq ELSA (yellow) and Kickr's wattage (red). This was common in several test and after the appropriate equipment warmup and spin downs.

Update: 11/23/2014

While I am still very happy with the Wahoo Kickr I feel it is important that readers who stumble upon this post understand that many are reporting differences between their dedicated power meters (various brands) and the power from the Kickr. I thought it best to make that known.


I am very happy with the purchase and day to day use for a number of other reasons. It is my hope that the folk at Wahoo will take action to get this resolved soon. So far they have been sending calibration tools when an owner puts down a deposit. Based on what I have read from some of those who have tried using the calibration kit at home it did not help correct the Kickr.

Update 4/1/2014

Power meter control from TrainerRoad and updated comments regarding the Kickr.
http://thecyclingaddiction.blogspot.com/2015/01/kickr-control-by-power-meter-beta.html





Easy to unpack and set up except is a little heavy

Direct drive which eliminates tire slip and wear

Heavy flywheel with magnetic resistance

Comes with Shimano / SRAM compatible cassette

The Wahoo Kickr is heavy with sturdy materials and a wide stable base

TrainerRoad workout using a Windows laptop and ANT+ adapter

Wahoo Bluetooth and ANT+ sensor attached to crank arm acts an auto start and stop in TrainerRoad workouts

The RPM sensor attaches quickly, does not need magnets and will quickly pair with Bluetooth Smart or ANT+